I just want to point out
That I don’t really like the “gender bent” Avengers gifsets because it totally ignores that there are amazing, super wonderful ladies that already exist in Marvel canon that aren’t yet being utilized in the MCU
Actually, it’s the entire reason I started doing Ladies of Marvel spams, because people just simply weren’t aware of all the awesome ladies that already exist!
I don’t want a “gender bent” Avengers
I want a team with Carol Danvers and Jessica Drew and Jennifer Walters and Pepper Potts and Kate Bishop and Bobbi Morse
I don’t need Sandra Bullock as “Toni Stark” because I already have Pepper Potts in the Rescue suit in the comics and we came SO CLOSE to seeing the real thing in Iron Man 3 that I just want it all to come together in the next Avengers movie
I don’t want “female Captain America” in a terrible recreation of the suit that for some reason must have a bare midriff, because I already have Miss America Chavez and Carol Danvers as Captain Marvel in a badass costume that actually makes sense for battle
I’m not trying to be rude or sound like I’m a comic book elitist or something, because the reason it bugs me so much is that if instead of making “gender bent” gifsets we actually focused on demanding Marvel put more ladies in the MCU then maybe we could get something done.
Yep. If you want a female super soldier, Bobbi is right there, kicking ass. Want a female character who fills the role of Thor? Sif or Valkyrie. These awesome ladies are right there. I hate how people would rather turn male characters into women than use existing female characters.
Thank you for pointing this out. Honestly, I hear people talking about bringing in more female characters and then the ones that make sense in that context get ignored in favor of What If stuff. Mockingbird, Daisy Johnson, Victoria Hand… all easily could be interesting additions to say, Agents of SHIELD.
Jennifer Walters could add a whole nother level to a Hulk move. She doesn’t lose herself to the power, why? What can we learn from this? What will Bruce do when faced with the choice between potentially poisoning a family member or letting her bleed to death? Don’t tell me that’s not interesting stuff.
And that’s just the surface. There’s a world of fantastic, interesting characters that could be tied in. We’re getting Rage? Well how about Firestar and Namorita? How about Black Cat in the next Spider-Man? How about a Heroes for Hire show or movie? Can’t tell me Misty and Colleen aren’t damn interesting!
Just to play Devil’s Advocate here, why can’t the interpretation and creative transformation of original content exist without the inferred need to make that interpretation absolute and canon?
Maybe someone had a fun idea for a fanfic and felt good writing genderbent Avengers. Maybe a fan just wanted to create a pretty gifset and share it with the world. It’s not a dig on what should exist in the movies, or in comics, or even in the fandom as a whole. Fandom should be fun for everyone, without the “rules,” whether expressed or implied, of what kind of Avengers team one should make in their transformative work.
I won’t even get into the whole MCU =/= Marvel 616 universe, because it’s been done to death. Some MCU fans aren’t into the comics, and they don’t know the characters you mention (and some comics fans STILL won’t know who you’re talking about, because some of those female characters are more obscure than others). And if you’re interested only in playing in the MCU sandbox, trying to explain the origin stories of Captain Marvel or Miss America Chavez (or even Kate Bishop’s Hawkeye) would be complicated.
I don’t enjoy Rule 63 artwork because I think the female superheroes in comics canon are lacking and one needs to gender-bend the male superheroes in order to have viable female blockbuster characters. I enjoy Rule 63 artwork because I find it fun and creative to interpret costumes, personalities, and powers in different ways.
It’s not always Big Picture stuff, folks. Sometimes, people just want to have fun in fandom without getting yelled at.
I want you to realize what you’re basically saying is, “Who cares if there aren’t ladies in the MCU? Just let people have fun! You guys are ruining the fun!” And I know that’s not at all what you mean to say but that’s how you’re coming across.
I know there are a lot of only MCU fans and I know MCU=/=616. I like to tell my MCU friends about ladies in the comics who I think would make for a good films. You saying their origin stories are “too complicated” though is not at all a good argument, considering how the characters in the MCU have already been simplified in order to fit a movie narrative versus a comic narrative and there’s no reason any of the ladies mentioned couldn’t be introduced into the MCU. There just isn’t really any diversity in heroes in the MCU and that needs to change.
And I realize there are movie fans who don’t read the comics and they don’t HAVE to read the comics and they’re just trying to have fun and they’re gender bending characters from the MCU because there aren’t many ladies so they’re making them. But that’s the thing, it takes two seconds on Google to realize you don’t have to turn Bruce Banner into a woman because Jennifer Walters already exists. And if you really really love Hulk but you wish there were more ladies in the MCU then you should really really want Jennifer Walters in the films.
Because the only way there’s going to actually be more diversity in superhero films is if the studios see a demand in it and they know they can put a lot of people in a lot of seats in the theaters. THAT’S why, instead of making up characters that don’t exist, it’s important to give attention to characters in the comics that deserve their own movie (like Carol Danvers and Jessica Drew and Jennifer Walters ect.)
Actually, the gist of what I was trying to say is that fanworks are not always created to fill a niche missing in a canon—or to represent an element that a fanwork creator thinks should be included in the canon. Fans don’t necessarily write Clint/Coulson because they want more representation of LGBT characters in the MCU. I don’t see you getting up in arms about slash fanworks of canonically straight characters when people should just be including canon LGBT characters on their fictitious Avengers roster.
I never said “who cares if there are females in the MCU,” because #1, there ARE females in the MCU, and #2, every female you mentioned is NOT in the MCU. And while some people enjoy mixing the comics canon and the movie canon, other’s don’t, for whatever reasons they have.
I just had a good convo with a friend on Twitter about this, regarding the concept that it could be deeply interesting to look how the male characters in the MCU would be different—in personality, in upbringing—if they had been born cis female. Tony’s relationship with his father. Steve’s patriotism. Thor and Loki’s power struggles. Even the way Natasha’s method of espionage would be different (let alone Black Widow’s backstory).
You’re saying that an in-depth look at how the development of, say, Hulk’s character would have been different should Bruce have been cisfemale is invalid, because the creator of that fanwork should have just subbed in Jennifer Walters instead. Except that the characters are different, and defined by more than their gender. Your assumption that Jennifer is interchangeable with a genderbent Bruce implies that women are interchangeable on the Avengers roster, and that’s problematic to me.
And, yeah, I am saying that writing a fic or making a piece of fanart is supposed to be fun for the creator and the viewers. I don’t see you getting up in arms about Steve/Tony fanworks when people should just be including canon LGBT characters on their fictitious Avengers roster.
I want more female characters in Avengers 2. *YOU* want more female characters in Avengers 2. And that’s awesome. But not every fanwork is about what that creator wants to see in Avengers 2. Sometimes, you create fanworks just for the pure joy of creating, not because it’s something you want in reality. And the idea of policing that creation is pretty irksome.